Comments on: Pharo project http://miguel.leugim.com.mx/index.php/2009/09/16/pharo-project/ GNU/Linux, Debian, Seaside and some bits more Fri, 13 Jan 2012 02:28:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: miguel http://miguel.leugim.com.mx/index.php/2009/09/16/pharo-project/#comment-269 miguel Thu, 17 Sep 2009 05:22:56 +0000 http://miguel.leugim.com.mx/?p=145#comment-269 I follow the squeak and squeak dev lists and am aware of the recent activity on Squeak. That by itself is very good indeed, and as many on the lists have expressed, it show that Squeak is alive and moving forward. What worries me is that: 1. The changes are made almost all by Andreas (~90%) and a handful of other persons (~ 10%). I know that Andreas push changes from others so maybe not 90 but 70% but the point remains, Andreas is doing most of the changes. 2. What will be different with the new process with respect to the big decisions that affect core or "classical" parts of squeak. Before the community couldn't agree on simple things like the color (are they distracting or not). What will be different now. Andreas won't have the final word as he is not the "benevolent dictator" as that is not as squeak was born. Pharo, on the other side, has stated from the very beginning that the core will have the final word and this a priori gives them the power to take forward unpopular ideas, for good or not. 3. Pharo has taken/stolen a part of the community mind share and from that part, some will never return. Even with the new process (that is not official yet). The Seaside project will give even more exposure to Pharo and a lot of new users will never learn of Squeak (sad) because of the Seaside/Pharo movement. 4. A lot of the Squeak changes are already integrated in Pharo and daily more of them are entered in the bug tracking system awaiting to make their way to Pharo. This will make less attractive to return to Squeak as Pharo already have the changes. Sad but true. Anyway, the future is to come yet, so we'll see what happens. Maybe the new process can refuel the Squeak community but one thing is true, nothing will be as before. Pharo is not only a fork. It is a reminder that Squeak must hear their community and to look ahead and not stay trying to be always backwards compatible or tradition respectful. I look forward to hear the final decision and implications of the license/certification effort that Squeak is doing. Anyway, thanks for your comments. I follow the squeak and squeak dev lists and am aware of the recent activity on Squeak. That by itself is very good indeed, and as many on the lists have expressed, it show that Squeak is alive and moving forward. What worries me is that:
1. The changes are made almost all by Andreas (~90%) and a handful of other persons (~ 10%). I know that Andreas push changes from others so maybe not 90 but 70% but the point remains, Andreas is doing most of the changes.
2. What will be different with the new process with respect to the big decisions that affect core or “classical” parts of squeak. Before the community couldn’t agree on simple things like the color (are they distracting or not). What will be different now. Andreas won’t have the final word as he is not the “benevolent dictator” as that is not as squeak was born. Pharo, on the other side, has stated from the very beginning that the core will have the final word and this a priori gives them the power to take forward unpopular ideas, for good or not.
3. Pharo has taken/stolen a part of the community mind share and from that part, some will never return. Even with the new process (that is not official yet). The Seaside project will give even more exposure to Pharo and a lot of new users will never learn of Squeak (sad) because of the Seaside/Pharo movement.
4. A lot of the Squeak changes are already integrated in Pharo and daily more of them are entered in the bug tracking system awaiting to make their way to Pharo. This will make less attractive to return to Squeak as Pharo already have the changes.

Sad but true. Anyway, the future is to come yet, so we’ll see what happens. Maybe the new process can refuel the Squeak community but one thing is true, nothing will be as before. Pharo is not only a fork. It is a reminder that Squeak must hear their community and to look ahead and not stay trying to be always backwards compatible or tradition respectful.

I look forward to hear the final decision and implications of the license/certification effort that Squeak is doing.

Anyway, thanks for your comments.

]]> By: Randal L. Schwartz http://miguel.leugim.com.mx/index.php/2009/09/16/pharo-project/#comment-268 Randal L. Schwartz Thu, 17 Sep 2009 04:13:21 +0000 http://miguel.leugim.com.mx/?p=145#comment-268 Check out the new development on Squeak core though. Yes, Squeak core waffled for far too long (creating the need for Pharo to move forward), but there's been over 500 bugfixes and improvements just in the last few months to Squeak core, and within a few more months, it'll all be nicely licensed and certified for use. See source.squeak.org/trunk.html for details. Check out the new development on Squeak core though. Yes, Squeak core waffled for far too long (creating the need for Pharo to move forward), but there’s been over 500 bugfixes and improvements just in the last few months to Squeak core, and within a few more months, it’ll all be nicely licensed and certified for use.

See source.squeak.org/trunk.html for details.

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